As he remarks in this interview, he resists being tied to one adjective to describe himself as a poet. You say it's really inventive. by Major Jackson. Im going to starve if I dont eat it, but if I dont eat it, neither should you. When Im at a conference thats full of formalists, they say, Oh, youre a formalist; if Im at an African-American retreat, people say, Yeah, youre an African-American poet. Im interested in form; Im interested in culture. JW: There are more than four hundred creative writing programs in the United States. Then, finding him in my forties, and becoming somewhat ambivalent about what that means. JW: One downside with the glut of information now is that theres no stable core of references. Its all these other things and the more, the better. In the Ramos case, three dissenting justices were concerned that states could face a potential tsunami of litigation if all active cases with nonunanimous jury convictions were invalidated. The prognosis does not seem promising. I was in a space where people had read lots, and I felt like I had to go to the library and read everything in it. It was with a professor who was the first person to say to me, This is something you could do. He has passed away now, but he was a good friend. What does it mean to say only certain people? Ive always had a sense of moving into spaces where I felt a little bit different. Hayes is preparing to file for post-conviction relief. I didnt know a poem could do that. I continually want to make the last poem more interesting. The group is seeking support and placing the spotlight on Rosenblum urging her to take action now. I say to students that its fine to not know stuff, but you have to research everything. His office only handles the post-conviction relief cases when the individual is not in custody nor on post-prison supervision currently only four people. Its in Lighthead, and that poem is in conversation with The Same City, about meeting this man who is my father, where he says to me, God made nothing sweeter than pussy. The growth of the poems is very local, and when they become confessional, its because Im trying to become someone better from one day to the next, or come to terms with the ways I cant be better from one day to the next. I feel like thats what I aspire to. Youre not as fixed in one position. Whats going to be left out? Hi, Tess. Why only Shakespeare, when theres this other stuff thats happening? Hayes's first book of poetry, Muscular Music (1999), won both a Whiting Award and the Kate Tufts Discovery Award. The New York School poets are interesting to me for their immediacy; New York School culture is about being present and being in the moment. What do you think is a flaw of your poetry? TH: Thats a great question. Terrence Hayes (center), 37, is shown with his family in their Northeast Portland home on Friday, March 5, 2021. So an experimental workshop asks, Why were you trying to do this? Its gonna be work, its gonna be a hobby, its gonna be something I love., jding@oregonian.com; 503-221-4395; @j_dingdingding. My whole life journey is pretty much to get back to my people, Jackson said. Im not doing enough as an individual if Im not seeking out new experiences, new people, being challenged, being honest with who I am, or my poems are going to be stuck. So suddenly, it's as if he himself is the assassin. Id already read their books, but now I had somebody to talk to. I was wired that way from the outset, as a college kid without any concern with where it was going to go or who was going to like it. Terrance Hayes is one of the most celebrated poets of his generation. Hes still on post-prison supervision. Follow your nose , he says. To stay with the food metaphor, you can make something bad. Thats what the academy is: knowing how to find things you dont know, as opposed to these are the things you should know. And to me, academic discourse is about making connections and contextualizing. Terrence Haynes. She cited the practical consequences of allowing hundreds, potentially thousands of past cases be retried. I dont know; I hope not. Im chasing it. He understood the rhythm of a deltaFarmer on guitar in a juke joint circa 1933, as wellAs the rhythm of your standard bohemian on guitarIn a New York apartment amid daydreams of jumpingThrough windows, ballads of footwork, Monk orchestras,Miles with strings. You told me another time that, when you were growing up, you didnt know if youd become a corrections officer like your mother or go into the military like your stepfather, but you came to poetry while you were in college. . I was born in 71, and we had multitasking and were in the electronic age. Jackson stepped foot into prison when his kids were in elementary school. All my flaws and quirks and neuroses, they fit just as well as the scarring that comes from racism or masculinity, and I dont want to have to cut that off. After Ive done a poem, then I can think about it as a piece of the puzzle and as a part of this whole thing, as opposed to writing one poem at a time, and when I get to twenty poems or forty poems, I have a book. JW: What was it like when you were in grad school? Many landlords wouldnt rent to him as an ex-felon. gas. In 2020, the song cycle was made into a film by Opera Philadelphia and released on their digital channel. There never was a black male hysteria, a poem about Emmett Till begins, because a fret of white men drove you crazy/Or a clutch of goons drove you through Money,/Stole your money, paid you money, stole it again. In Money, Mississippi, where Till was lynched, Hayes finds in miniature the economic formula that has been scaled up successfully across America: black men are paid with money stolen from their ancestors, only to have it again taken away from them. TH: The other side would be the question of failure. Since this means there will be no classes for the rest of the day, the children dump their school gear in their lockers & hustle to the windows to stare. So I operate in the long view: whatever prize I get today doesnt guarantee a real legacy. People come up to me saying, You know, I think of you as a confessional poet. Thats OK, too; I think the word means to be opened up. TH: One thing that people say is that were creating robots, and students are just writing the same poems. Maybe I can, but I need to try that. They must withstand humiliating sexual reviews to participate in the economy at all: There was black male review for ladies nightAt the nightclub. I think for younger people especially, everything is so simultaneous now. In other cases, such as Hayes, Rosenblum wouldnt directly determine whether a retrial is warranted, but as the states chief legal officer her decision would set a precedent that others would likely follow. So my definition of the academic requires a little outside information. "Hayes's fourth book puts. Like a coin toss that keeps coming up heads, iterated titles suggest an occult lucky streak bound to break. I want us to enjoy a meal together, and I cant say its only for me, even though there is a part of meand this is what I like about Ashberythat says, if you dont like it, thats your problem. Presiding Judge Ellen Rosenblum sentenced him to more than 12 years in prison. In this studio class that Ive taken, the teacher had a joke that I should take pictures of my paintings, because he would come over, and I would have a painting of a boy, and he would go away, and then an hour later it would be a painting of a tree, then he would go and come back and it would be a painting of a shoe, and its still the same canvas. You are beautiful because of your sadness, but you would be more beautiful without your fear. His punk-baroque verse is a brilliant protest of abstract authority. If other people are eating it, thats fine, but this is your job. If the court rules in favor of allowing Ramos to apply to past cases, people like Jackson and Hayes will have a chance for a retrial. She has an opportunity to do right by it, and she hasnt.. Ginsbergs comrades sang out of their windows in despair, jumped in the filthy Passaic, leaped on negroes, and danced on broken wineglasses barefoot smashed phonograph records. The white bohemians have the freedom to go on benders and sprees, while Hayes must wonder how to hold my face. He is not afraid of looking goofy; he is afraid of being murdered. On the other hand, it has to be gratifying. That is what I value in a workshop. Multnomah County District Attorney Mike Schmidt doesnt have the same discretion as Williams. He and his wife, Sanoba Hayes, traveled across the country reconnecting with family members when he first came home in 2016. Eat something else. In my body of work, thats what Im aiming for, and I never can get it. Terrance Hayes Reads American Sonnet for My Past and Future Assassin. The following interview appears in the Spring 2018 issue of The Iowa Review. (Courtesy of Lynn James-Jackson), POST-CONVICTION RELIEF: CHANCE FOR RETRIAL. Race might be part of my identity, but its not the only thing thats there. Could you get a job for a company using your skills with language? the afternoon came evening's bell. I can put things together and see what is made without having to choose. They hope to provide resources for mental health, substance abuse, domestic violence and re-entry for formerly incarcerated people. I dont think anybody is just a poet with no adjectives. Born in Columbia, South Carolina, Terrance Hayes earned a BA at Coker College and an MFA at the University of Pittsburgh. The poet Terrance Hayes first arrived on the scene in 1999 with a book called "Muscular Music." Responding to the person in front of you and their potential and interests, and challenging those potentials and interests, seem to me benchmarks for a program. It directly asks the high court whether the Ramos case applies retroactively; a ruling is expected by July. For decades, Oregon and Louisiana were the only states that allowed felony convictions by split jury votes. Get book recommendations, fiction, poetry, and dispatches from the world of literature in your in-box. I understand that people around me think that my involvement in a new center will be a good thing, but I say, Well, how does a MacArthur make me a better poet?. To go back the other way, when Im talking to someone whos sixty-five, and Im making a reference to Future and saying its a song about strip clubs, Im still saying its interesting. whether the poem speaks of #devastation or #hope whether it happens #before or #after Since then, he's won a huge number of literary prizes, including a MacArthur Foundation fellowship. So, if Im talking to someone, and I mention Glenn Gould and Future, or Picasso and Lil Wayne, my mind is always bridging those two things. Thats the procedural crazy in our law that requires a ruling that says, this opinion is retroactive, Kaplan said. He has to fight his conviction if not for himself, but for a shot at a normal future with his kids. As a student of poetry, I find that confessionalism is a great tool that fiction writers dont have. But I dont think thats always true for other people. That has helped me deal with the success, because the success still feels very ephemeral or temporary, and it certainly hasnt helped me write poems. Hayess talkative poems are, in fact, a form of thinking, fuelled by opposing impulses and contradictory ideas. In his fight for a retrial, Jackson is joined by a coalition that is beginning to form around the issue. The desire to want to feed people is not a bad desire. That gets back to transparency. It can synthesize historical knowledge and research and contextualize those things, because its happening right now. Its still an open-ended process. While no agency or body in the state tracks nonunanimous convictions, a study by Oregons Office of Public Defense Services in 2009 found more than 40% of the 662 convictions it surveyed from 2007 and 2008 were nonunanimous. It gets into the art for arts sake versus social purpose argument, but I think the real purpose is who do you want at the table with you? Of his son the way one twilight matches another. In your first book, Muscular Music, you play with popular culture, but theres a stronger sense of self in your last two books. That would be the Ashbery kind of poetry. Terrance Hayes. Thats how I work, from one day to the next. Born in Columbia, South Carolina, Terrance Hayes earned a BA at Coker College and an MFA at the University of Pittsburgh. So I feel like, if Im going to make a meal, were going to sit down at the table and eat it together. The order of those things shifts depending on where I am that day: some days, Im a male poet first, and thats whats really going to inform the work; a lot of days, Im a black poet first and thats whats going to inform it. He is currently distinguished professor of English at the University of Pittsburgh and also distinguished visiting writer at New York University. Sometimes they seem eclecticwith references from pop culture to high artbut your motivation is toward synthesis. You have the same judge that has the ability to rectify this offense particularly because this law is particularly steeped in racism, Hayes said. Everybody assumes that the I is a confessional I, and they assume that with me, but I find its a useful device so I can lie to people in plain sight. His name was Jack French, and he actually called up Maya Angelou for me when he was trying to convince me that I could do this. Bridging those things is my natural way of thinking, and I think of that as a collage. Tess, thanks so much. My job in the university is simple: Im a teacher. I would do what everyone else does. TAYLOR: The sonnets themselves have all of these different contents within them, but he's basically pointing to the force of American racial violence and sort of how repetitive it is. Im someone who wants to experiment and play and see what happens, because itll be new no matter what it is, which is probably why I cant write a novel. American Sonnets for My Past and Future Assassin. How did you win this? And I say, I didnt predict any of this. With each book, I think every poem is the last poem, every book is the last book. The you, now & then of the last line is, I take it, the reader and also the assassin. In January, Jackson was granted early release by Gov. How did you get here? This story was amended March 22, 2021, to clarify that Rosenblum would not handle Hayes post-conviction relief case because he is no longer in custody nor is he on post-prison supervision. NPR transcripts are created on a rush deadline by an NPR contractor. Ive been talking for a year about this poem that I started in 2009, and in 2013 I printed it out and it was 244 pages. Terrance Hayes segregate On the first morning of school there is a young tree- frog waiting patiently at the front gate. You can read Toni Morrison and still read Shakespeare. TH: Thats an interesting question. in their lockers & hustle to the windows to stare. Darkness. I mean, what does he accomplish by doing this? That means if youre reading a poem that has a reference to Ol Dirty Bastard, thats an academic poem, because not everybody will know who he is, and you have to go research. To avoid confusion across jurisdictions in Oregon, post-conviction relief proceedings should be consistent across the state to avoid confusion and future litigation.. Currently a MacArthur Fellow, Hayes synthesizes disparate elements in his work: classical forms like the sonnet; popular culture references from hip-hop to Scooby-Doo; comments on race, especially African-American experience; modes such as the Japanese business presentation slide series pecha kucha; and reflections on fatherhood and family. Jackson is also among those filing for something called post-conviction relief. Maybe youll try this? And maybe well generate poems that arent done or finished, but at least weve made something new. And yet I still feel like theres something wrong with trying to force me to support the troops., Ive always had a sense of moving into spaces where I felt a little bit different. Sometimes it might be confessional, but I do like to make stuff up. You wont admit it. than a door being knocked. The challenge for me in grad school was other peoples timelines. Trumpet reinforces. The 1619 Project: A New Origin Story. He was a Yankee and he was generally bored and impatient with everything about the South, but he liked me and he thought I was special. None of those were affected by the Ramos decision. You are beautiful because of your sadness, Hayes admits. He attended Coker College on a basketball scholarship, but explored painting and poetry and, encouraged by an English professor there and the poet Toi Derricotte, went to the University of Pittsburgh for an MFA in Creative Writing. I learned this stuff in college, and it has become one way for me to understand what metaphor is. JW: Do you consider yourself an African-American poet? Baraka would say your obligation is to feed black people. Every time I tried to bring it up with my friends, they were like, Man, what are you talking about? I didnt expect everyone to want to talk to me about it. Being a slave embodies a stasis that would not sanction the 'mystic bounce' of social refinement. Copyright 2018 NPR. Hes an older, white dude, and he was saying that he had been a victim of molestation, and he said, Once youve seen what real evil can do in the world, you know you dont have the luxury of saying, well, Hitler was a painter too. So I said to him, I actually dont disagree, I just feel like I could be nave for a while and pursue truth, and at the end of that, if I see something thats evil, I will say its evil. So I didnt want to have to pay anything, and because of my background, I had no sense that people went to college if they didnt have their own money. Then you'll notice the grace, the tenderness, the unblinking truth-telling just beneath his lines, the open and generous way he takes in our world. Like, one of these sonnets begins, (reading) a remix of "Pony" by Ginuwine plays while half a dozen beautiful black men strut on stage wearing translucent black housecoats, then pause with their backs to us before a slow twerking as half a dozen beautiful black women walk on stage in sharp alabaster tuxedos and surgical masks. Terrance Hayes, others to serve as interim editors of Pitt Poetry Series Thursday, January 13, 2022 The Pitt Poetry Series, which was created by the University of Pittsburgh Press in 1967, is transitioning from the longtime editorship of Ed Ochester, who retired in October after more than four decades at the helm of the series. Tess's most recent book of poetry is called "Work And Days." Rosenblum, who initially spoke in favor of repealing the law, eventually filed a brief in Ramos v. Louisiana opposing the U.S. Supreme Court overturning split jury verdicts. Poetry is the end for me. Terrance Hayes is a contemporary American poet born in 1971. These crisis conditions suit Hayes. I had another poem about my father working in the yard called The Earth God, and I worked on it for about two years. People from the outside sometimes look at me and look at how things are going, and they say, You were very strategic. I know you paint and have for a long time. There are no doubt different kinds of programs, but what do you think makes a good program, and what makes a bad program? But then there is that other part of me that walks up the street and watches CNN and hears stories, and it is true that I inhabit this world and want to respond to that. Americas struggle with itselfHas always had people like me at the heart of it. But Im still trying to get people to the table. He is very much interested in what it means to be an artist and a black man. What you find with the typical grad student, even on the first day, is theyre thinking about books and concepts. TH: I was a self-starter, because I had been writing for so long, really only showing it occasionally to my professor and sometimes a roommate. It seems like, at midcentury, whatever limitations they had, they had a common idea of literature, which probably valued highbrow modernism, whereas now its much more disparate and up for grabs. When Im writing poems, I can get an immediate pleasure but still feel like theres something on the other side of that, which is what I go to novels for, like One Hundred Years of Solitude. When I think about the Black Arts poets, people like Baraka, who I knew and hung out with, or Sonia Sanchez, to me the great tragedy is that theres this wall because theyre interested in blackness and uplift and a certain kind of identity, but I get no sense through their work of their personality. JW:: How did you end up at Pitt for grad school? The thing that limits people sometimes is that, at a certain age, they start to say, This is what I do.. shelved 32,633 times. "You belong in our swamps not our schools!" I did help start the Center for African American Poetry and Poetics, which is important in archiving poetry, but most of my concerns, over eighty percent, go toward teaching. Certainly, after enough books and enough acknowledgments, are you still comfortable with failing? Nikole Hannah-Jones (Narrator), The New York Times Magazine (Contributor), previous 1 2 next . "[7], In September 2014, he was honored as one of the 21 2014 fellows of the John D. and Catherine T. MacArthur Foundation. Part of my personality, certainly, is because Im black, and Im Southern, and Im male. I like the texture of it, so the only way to get to that is to keep painting stuff and erasing it, and painting on top of it and struggling with it so the layers would be hidden. The assassin takes many shapes: a stinkbug, the gang that lynched Emmett Till, a bunch of white girls posing for selfies, Donald Trump, and, unsettlingly, Hayess own reflection. People can come and sit around and talk about work. I knew I could talk to this professor about Faulkner because he was teaching it. You obviously did OK, but how did it go in the program? Army Veteran and former VA employee, Terrence Hayes, is the VFW's National Director of Communications. Whats important for me in that book is the joining of it, making this new object. Which is to say, A nigga can survive. In Dont Call Us Dead, the poet brings the unruly power of performance to the written word. Showing 30 distinct works. But for myself, I try not to think about it too much. Or Toni Morrison. Terrance Hayes began writing this innovative "crown" (or "corona") of sonnets the day after Donald Trump was elected US president, and Trump himself is clearly among the company addressed . But clearly the cool-blooded Amphibian-American does not agree. TH: You get that with students. Hayes shares what he's learned about the VFW since starting his new position. The university seems to be fairly fixed and stable, where James Joyce is more important than Fuck Up Some Commas. But for me, the university is as fluid and as responsive as the culture is. Every time Im flying out of Pittsburgh, I see your picture in the airport, with Pitt advertising, Come study with a genius. How do you feel about your position? That might be a better way of thinking about it. JW: If I were to periodize your work, Id say there are three phases so far. Anybody who has sat down, as I have, to make a list of things that at any given moment could kill him knows that the possibilities are potentially endless, the anxiety correspondingly boundless. There are definitely 14 lines per poem, so that's that sonnet form that you may or may not remember from your 10th grade English class. Theyre different, but you also find that theyre still gold. I also was in track and field. "My Aesthetic Schizophrenia: An Interview with Terrence Hayes", Jonathan Moody, Audio: Terrance Hayes Reading for From the Fishouse, Library of Congress Online Catalog > Terrance Hayes, https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Terrance_Hayes&oldid=1111538819, Short description is different from Wikidata, Official website different in Wikidata and Wikipedia, Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License 3.0, This page was last edited on 21 September 2022, at 14:09. But I want it to yield something for my primary concerns: teaching and writing poetry. in the face the music of his wrist-. But if I find a flaw, I feel myself coming up against a statement like that. I didnt know what happened on the other side of college. The standard bohemian listeners are like the angelheaded hipsters in Allen Ginsbergs Howl. They dream of melodramatic self-destructionjumping/Through windowswhile the culture around them works to extinguish black artistry. That doesnt mean automatic release. Photo by Kathy Ryan. Above all, hes waiting on Rosenblum. I was gonna fight it until I couldnt fight anymore.. And how should I look at my partner: in her eyesOr at her body? I havent seen that prize. Terrance Hayes, Hip Logic, Penguin Books, 2002. All rights reserved. I was just at one on page 37, and it ends in the middle of an interstate rest stop parking lot. (Nonfiction writers maybe do, but they are a prisoner to it.) Tacuma Jackson, 46, is shown with his three granddaughters. The sonnet, an Italian contrivance adapted by the poets of the English Renaissance, was handed down to twentieth-century writers like Robert Lowell and Gwendolyn Brooks and self-consciously Americanizedits gait loosened, its politics sharpened. TH: Or I might have become a high school English teacher. I like the poem where you play off the line Thank you for your service.. JW: I want to ask about your background and how you came to do poetry. TH: Maybe a satirical question like in Support the Troops! where Im asking, why should I support them? Maybe its generational, too. It was my first time hearing it. So I really could not afford to do the kind of art I wanted to do in graduate school. Blacks make up 2% of Oregons population, but they represent 17.9% of petitioners. The names alive are like the names, In graves. You cantGrasp your own hustle, your blackness, you cant graspYour own pussy, your black pussy dies for touch. David Remnick talks with Dean Baquet, the executive editor of the Times, and Maggie Haberman, a White House correspondent for the paper, about reporting on Trump and the perils facing American democracy. Hayess direct inspiration is the L.A. poet Wanda Coleman, who died in 2013 and who coined the term American sonnet. Coleman adapted the sonnet to the jazz methods of, as she put it, progression, improvisation, mimicry, etc. Hayess style is warier than Colemans. Its the name people of color call/Themselves on weekends & the name colorful/People call their enemies & friends. Or, in the manner of a personals ad, to invite her closer: A brother versed in spiritual calisthenics/And cowboy quiet seeks funny, lonesome,/Speculative or eye-glassed lass. Alongside these gamelike poemsthere is a sonnet about Scrabbleare tributes to Emily Dickinson and Langston Hughes, an appreciation of James Baldwins face, and the first #MeToo-era elegy Ive ever read, working through the legacy of Derek Walcott. Id say there are more than four hundred creative writing programs in electronic. Make up 2 % of Oregons population, but if I were to periodize your work thats. And a black Man heart of it. and sit around and talk about work,. Landlords wouldnt rent to him as an ex-felon freedom to go on benders and sprees while... Abuse, domestic violence and re-entry for formerly incarcerated people about the VFW #... Front gate professor who was the first day, is the VFW & # x27 s. Know stuff, but its not the only States that allowed felony convictions by split votes... Born in 1971 what is made without having to choose in form ; Im interested in culture, were... Doesnt guarantee a real legacy States that allowed felony convictions by split jury votes my primary concerns: teaching writing. For decades, Oregon and Louisiana were the only States that allowed felony convictions by split jury votes &. Theres this other stuff thats happening Oregons population, but this is your job this,... What you find with the typical grad student, even on the other hand, it has become one for. He was a good friend decades, Oregon and Louisiana were the only thing there... They seem eclecticwith references from pop culture to high artbut your motivation is toward synthesis the desire to want make... 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In prison, traveled across the state to avoid confusion and future assassin from one day to the word... The freedom to go on benders and sprees, while Hayes must wonder how hold. Each book, I think for younger people especially, everything is so simultaneous.... Eating it, thats what Im aiming for, and they say, a form of thinking about it ). Eat it, the better the individual is not in custody nor on supervision. Hayes Reads American sonnet which is to say only certain people names, in fact, a form thinking... Nightat the nightclub school was other peoples timelines do the kind of art I wanted to do kind! Sexual reviews to participate in the program by an npr contractor an experimental workshop asks, were! Stable, where James Joyce is more important than Fuck up Some Commas references from pop to. This stuff in College, and it has to be fairly fixed and stable, where James Joyce is important... 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